[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: Welcome friends, to Faith in Healthcare. What you're about to hear is a recording from one of the breakout sessions at our recent CMDA National Conference, a discussion that I hosted alongside medical student Bethany Taylor on mentoring that is worth sharing with our listeners.
Bethany's a medical student on the verge of beginning her own residency and she joined me at natcon to speak about a topic that is close to both of our hearts.
We're going to be talking about what Christ centered mentoring actually looks like in the healthcare setting, the biblical case for investing in the next generation, and what it takes from both sides of the relationship equation to make it work. If you are a seasoned healthcare professional just wondering about how to pour into younger colleagues, or you're a trainee who's looking for someone to come alongside you, this is the episode for you.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Well, I'm so grateful that you've decided to attend our session, this breakout session. As you may have heard this morning, I'm Francis Nithulapati, I chair the Mentoring and Discipleship Commission and this is the first year that the Commission has a track at the national convention and we're real excited about it. And this first breakout tells you how important mentoring and discipleship is to the organization and also to our CEO Mike Chupp. So I'm really grateful for you all being here. So I wanted to take a minute to introduce our speakers today who are I think well known to you, But I told Dr. Chubb that doesn't mean that he still doesn't get to be introduced.
So our first speaker is Dr. Mike Chupp who is a US Board Certified General Surgeon who completed his BA at Taylor University in 1984, his MD at Indiana University in 1988 and a General Surgery residency at Methodist Hospital of Indiana in 1993.
He worked at Southwestern Medical Clinic in Michigan until 2016.
And then from 1996 to 2016, Mike and his wife Pam served as healthcare missionaries at Tenwic Hospital in Kenya.
In 2016 they moved to Bristol, Tennessee where Mike became Executive Vice President of Christian Medical and Dental Associations and then in 2019 he was commissioned as CEO, a position he holds to the present.
Mike's co presenter is Bethany Taylor and she is a 4th year medical student who graduating just in a few days, I think a few weeks.
And Bethany has had a calling to family medicine and a special emphasis on women's health.
Before entering medicine, she spent decades engaged in short term missions, community development and global health projects across East Africa where she later conducted research on preventing mother to child transmission of hiv, HIV and Founded a nonprofit supporting vulnerable women and children.
She's a mother of five and lifelong advocate for underserved communities.
Bethany integrates faith, compassion and cross cultural experience into her approach to medicine. She brings the perspective of a mentee shaped by deeply transformative Christ centered mentorship throughout her non traditional paths to becoming a physician.
I know that you are really going to benefit from their topic today titled Mentoring that Building Christ centered relationships across the journey of medicine by exploring the vows of effective mentoring relationships.
So let me commission them with a prayer and then we'll let them get started.
Father, what a privilege it is to to be known by you, to be redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ.
But what a greater privilege it is to be commissioned by you to go and make disciples.
I pray for this session, Lord. I pray that we would be edified, that we would be inspired or perhaps even convicted by your Holy Spirit to know how we can engage better with each other and especially those who are coming up, Lord, in the next generation generation, how we can impact them with our image of you and how to live a life that honors you throughout their careers.
I commission these two speakers to you, Father, and pray that you would empower them in their talk today. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.
[00:05:12] Speaker C: Amen. Well, thank you for the welcome and introductions.
We are very excited to be here today. And this is a topic that's really close to my heart because I have been deeply impacted by mentoring relationships and Christians who have poured into my life throughout.
So this is a talk that I'm privileged to give with Dr. Chupp here. And in preparation for this, we both realized that we have an understanding of Swahili.
So we're going to start by saying hamjambo Hatu jambo. Hatu jambo. And you would all respond the same. And it's basically, do you have any problems? No, I don't have any problems. So we're going to get started.
Yep. Buana Asufiri is Praise the Lord. So let's see.
This is going to get me to the next slide. Perfect. Okay, so we have some learning objectives here and I'll put these out here real quick for us. But basically we want you to understand the role that mentorship for healthcare professions and a means of discipleship and spiritual growth in domestic and cultural settings. We want to describe the key ingredients of a fulfilling and successful mentoring experience. Experience using the vowels framework and identify the essential commitments required from both mentor and mentee to ensure the relationship is intentional, accountable and Christ. Honoring and apply faith informed practices such as prayer, transparency and reflection to strengthen mentoring relationships and nurture resilience and legacy.
So Dr. Chep is going to come where this is going to be kind of an interactive, like, I have some slides, he has some slides. And you'll get to kind of hear a little bit from both of us.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you.
[00:07:18] Speaker B: So Bethany has never been my mentee.
And I have a feeling that if we had actually had a chance that we would have probably spent half of our time sharing in Swahili, maybe. So Bethany was the only American medical student to go to Arusha for the last World Congress, the only student we had. So she had a lot of attention from students around the globe. And that's because she was serving in Tanzania at the time. So this is a lot of fun to have worked together with Beth, put this together. I want you to think about those of you who've been to many national conventions. Maybe those of you who've come for 10, 12, 15, 20 years to think about the different MCs who over those years have helped us through the national convention. Gene Rudd, I was there. Jamie Campbell, Jeff Barrows, and now Julie. Julie Rose.
Every single one of us did it differently, had our own little flavor. And every one of us who engages in mentoring does it differently. It looks different depending upon the situations for our healthcare settings.
And every mentee is different.
And so when I look out over here and I see some folks who are at least a decade ahead of me and probably have done 10x the amount of mentoring in their careers that I have, I think, and I've said this on the podcast with Daralyn and with Francis, when you were my guests, I think there's absolutely no excuse for every member not to be a mentor.
Absolutely no excuse. Now, I know this. I know that not every member is a mentor. I have, I'm pretty close friends with a lot of members of cmdn. I know the number of them are just heads down doing the work and mentoring nobody.
So. And I've been. I've given this talk in a number of settings in which I asked people to raise their hands. After a while, I stopped doing that because it was kind of embarrassing, actually.
The number of people who would raise their hands, either either in a mentoring or a mentor or mentee relationship, at most in the room, in a room full of healthcare professionals, at most it would be 50, 50. In many settings, it would be maybe 1 in 5, 1 in 10.
And so I think it's all something. There's no one who's going to disagree in this room that mentoring isn't necessary. The thing we do add because of the commission is discipleship. So of course you mean to tell me I need a mentor. Yes, of course. And we need mentors to come and sign up.
And so why mentoring talk? Why is. Why does it matter to me? Because, man, there are just tons of men and women who have invested in my life. Dr. Bob Wesche, the first surgeon at Tenwick Hospital, showed me how to be a missionary surgeon. Dr. Dave Stevens showed me how to be a Christian leader.
Jim Teter, surgeon from Pennsylvania. And then two pastors leaders at Timok Hospital, who also mentored me as a a younger missionary leader at Timok Hospital. And then I had stateside influence at Southwestern Medical Clinic. Dr. Bob Schindler. I talk about him quite frequently because he's probably the number one reason I was willing to say I would take this role, because the only reason that he was not the executive director or the CEO of CMDA is because this younger dude with a brown fro named Dave Stevens got the job and was was selected instead of Bob Schindler. But Bob would have left behind general surgery to become the executive director of CMBA back in the early 90s. And that just stood out to me at the time, having no idea where I would end up, that Bob Schindler would step away from surgery for this organization. So he mentored me as well.
And of course, Ernie's story and being at tenwic where training just became. Just exploded from about the time I landed at tenwic at the end of the first year of internship training.
And from there, the training just massively grew. This was in 2011, around the circle, the entrance to Tenwick, and just so many, both American students, Kenyan students, American residents, Kenyan residents, and so many around in my life that I could be a part of mentoring. This is a picture of Bob. His tombstone. The greatest privilege in the world is to serve Jesus Christ. Now, I went through.
This is a big part of my story. I went through nine years of training in the Bible Belt. Okay, everyone, many of you think that you're in the buckle of the Bible Belt and all that stuff, but Indianapolis was the Bible Belt and lots of Christian faculty who would take me out to lunch and invest in me. But in terms of demonstrating spiritual ministry in practice with patients, no one showed me how to do that. Not until I got to Southwestern Medical Clinic and saw Bob Schindler do it with patients. So I'm so grateful. It took me till my first year of practice before anyone demonstrated it for me. But I'm so grateful for Bob taking me under his wing. Though he was one of the busiest guys around, he still intentionally mentored me. And that's my daughter Kayla, who's now a hospice nurse in eastern Tennessee.
But also the concept of mentoring was just kind of catch as catch can, the expectation you would do it, but absolutely no formal training whatsoever.
There's no mentoring academy at wgm. It was just do it and figure it out on the way. And so finally our mission said we need to have a curriculum, we need to do this right. And so my wife and I were part of a group of seven couples who were taken through the very first training at WGM to formally become missionary mentors of younger missionaries. Dr. Ben Roberts and his wife Jenny, who is a retinal surgeon that ended up spending 14 years at Tenwic were our first mentees after we had this training. And so it was great. Everyone was excited and it began to, it was in demand. And here's my executive coach mentor. He just retired at WGM just two months ago.
Dr. Dan Schaefer, who's been coaching me for the last six years as my executive coach.
So they must increase, we must decrease. I think it's a really great mandate that John John 3:30 that John the Baptist said about those who are following us, dying to ourselves and investing in the next generations.
And Pax uses this verse all the time. 2nd Timothy 2:2 preparing post grad African physicians to serve in Africa.
It's their context. And these faces on the screen were just very dear and wonderful mentees. They taught me a lot too. Some of them were so brilliant. It was actually as a consultant, almost intimidating to be around some of these young people. They were so brilliant. And then here's my current mosaic of mentoring experiences from all over the map, starting with Eric, who's been in West Africa, very strong Muslim area, who's becoming an empty nester, saying goodbye to kids. And so Med sin hooked me up with Eric just to help him walk through what it's like to say goodbye to kids and make decisions about whether we should stay or go back to the state. So that's been, this is a very senior mentoring relationship all the way down to one of my missionary nephews, Will Manchester, who's got the job of development for.
It's an organization that supplies vehicles for missionaries who are home on HMA homeland assignment. And I've been mentoring him in sort of an executive position. He's a very talented mid-20s and you know, within five years of maybe becoming a CEO.
And the others are all medical, Andrew and I Andrew is my longest he's just finished his family medicine residency and has been going through some family marital challenges that we've been walking through together. Carissa, plastic general surgeon who worked for NASA has been in the White House, and she came along at just the right time after someone I gave this talk for ICMDA on the Thursday webinar series and Sherry Falkenheimer, always good for poking me. Always good for poking me. She asked the question online, all your mentees are men. What's wrong with mentoring women?
I said, that's a really good question, Sherry. And just shortly after she asked me that question, Karisa came along at a retreat that I was speaking at and she said, I love memorizing Scripture too. Can we come alongside? Could you tell me your techniques and help me and study the Word together? So Carissa and by the way, she was not married about 32, 33, and she said, my first prayer request is that you would pray with me that I'll find a man. Now, I can't guarantee you that my set of one can attribute to anybody else, but within two weeks of my praying for it, she met the man and she's now married, so that worked out well for her.
And then lane is a first year M1 at and I always like to link with a medical student locally and he's teaching me a lot. Chinese ethnic background, family, not Christians. His wife just came to Christ a few months ago and we were praying for that.
So anyway, that's my little collage of mentoring current mentoring experiences. So who or what is a mentor, a loyal friend, confidant, advisor, teacher, guide, coach, role model, entrusted with the care and education of someone else very dear, has knowledge or expertise to nurture another person of ability and is willing to give what he or she knows with absolutely no expectation, though it does happen, of reciprocation or remuneration because I frankly think that bidirectional benefit here is what makes it sustainable and most fun.
[00:17:03] Speaker C: Okay, so one of the things that I wanted to talk about was mentoring matters to us as students, residents, young physicians.
And I want you to take this picture of I actually went to medical school when I was a little older. Okay. So I was from not driving with I got married not in the 1900s, but the early 2000s when we were still using paper maps and my husband and I got married and we drove from northern Maine to Dallas, Texas, using a paper map, completely directing ourselves if we missed a turn we had to figure it out. We didn't know if there was construction coming.
We just had to figure out how to get there. Right.
But now we're preparing for a move from northern Maine to Idaho for my residency position. And look, GPS Apple Maps offers us three different routes as we're driving. They can give us direction along the way.
They can tell us about road hazards ahead.
They can redirect us to a better route in real time.
And this was kind of the idea of like, if you think about mentoring, think about it as like having a real time gps. Right. Like you have as a student.
We're looking to not figure this all out on our own. Right. We are desiring to have godly health care profession, professional professionals that help us connect our faith and work in healthcare. Right. And that's going to happen through mentoring relationships. We want your help in transitions, but also how to grow in our faith. We need your honesty because we are in a very like, challenging time and we need somebody to help us with that. So self reflection, right. We need somebody to say, hey, beware, there's something coming up here. Or maybe you should think about this. You're going this way. Be honest with us. Right. We also need your guidance as we seek to step into leadership roles. And I know that's a huge topic right now, especially in Christian healthcare. There's like this divide. Right? Right. There's all of the people who have gone before and led CMDA and are making these huge impacts and then they're students. And then we've talked a little bit about how there's kind of this loss in between like the students and residents. And then like, where is this kind of 25 to 40 crowd? Right, right.
So I want to encourage you that we are looking for your guidance as mentors.
So and now to speak to the students, the residents, the, you know, young professionals.
Mentorship has talked a lot about. Right. Like, we're all told we need a mentor, but I think it's good to stop and think about who or what is a mentee. Right.
So a mentee is somebody who's focused on growth or somebody who seeks guidance, feedback, perspective from a more experienced mentor.
A mentee is actively engaged. They come prepared with questions and knows the areas they want to grow in. We're not just showing up and saying, hey, will you be my mentor and teach me everything you know?
You know, that's, that's not helpful. Right. Like, we are looking for a specific ask. Right. So mentees, we need to follow through on advice that's given and start applying what we're learning, right? We're not just taking up our mentor's time, right?
Excuse me. We're also taking ownership of our own development during this time. So we're not idly sitting by like this little seedling, just saying, water me, give me fertilizer. You know, like, we know we need that, but we need to ask and request and be there, ready to grow.
You know, we also need to know we're really not all that yet. We have a lot to learn, and sometimes we don't know what we don't know. And so that's part of the ask. As a mentee, we're humble. We're being proactive in our own development.
And so that kind of leads into this, like, who is responsible, right? So one question that I've gotten from a lot of students is, how do I get a mentor? Well, ask. Just ask, right? Like, you have to.
I don't know many doctors that are just going to pursue, like, walk up to a student and be like, hey, can I be your mentor?
It doesn't really happen that way in med school. It might happen, like, you're assigned an advisor and you have a mandatory, like, once per semester meeting with that person.
And maybe that is like an intro to a mentorship relationship.
But you need to find those that you need to prepare for that, you need to initiate that, and then you need to be ready to cultivate that relationship.
And I wanted to kind of speak to, like, where are we finding these mentors? Right?
And what I found is that most often these relationships, they form organically from, like, relationships and those that are close to us.
So ask yourself, who am I surrounded by in my CMDA groups? Who are physicians at my church?
Are there physicians at your school that you have found out that are Christians that could mentor you?
And so I want to challenge you to be bold in taking that initiative, and that's going to be to your advantage. Sometimes you need to maybe not just send a hey, I'm looking for a mentor email and hope that they respond. Right? Like, sometimes you have to be persistent and show a commitment and a dedication to being mentored.
So a challenge to the students, residents and fellows and young healthcare professionals.
First of all, pray, pray that the Lord would bring the right mentors into your life, right? Because he knows what you need.
And you might not even know what you need. But we're praying that God would bring those people into our lives, be bold, step out in faith and pursue those mentors. Look around for those who are living the life that you know, God is calling you to.
One piece of advice that actually I think you gave me, Dr. Nithalupati was when I was looking at residencies, he said, look at those that will be training you and ask yourself if those are people you want to be like.
And that kind of has just been on the hamster wheel in my mind, right. Like as you go, like you become like those that you're surrounded by. So if you are looking for a mentor, ask yourself, is that somebody that I want to grow to be like?
And then the challenge is to be willing to listen, to take advice and to change.
And then also one piece of advice too is that like, understand as a trainee that not all of your asks will lead to this like long term mentoring relationship. Right.
But that ask could be a potential networking opportunity. Right. So when we are asking a doctor to mentor us or a healthcare professional or a dentist or anyone, it's. And I think Dr. Chappa is, I'm trying to lead into his next slide here. So it's not always like you're asking them to commit to a five year growth development plan as your mentor, right? You're saying, okay, let's see what this could be.
Thank you.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: Nice.
So I have a concept that just as I became CEO, executive Vice President, CEO of cmda and even before that kept getting asked to meet with someone because of their interest in missions or surgery or both or other things. And so I came up with this cameo mentoring or a mentoring date if you will.
And really it's a minor part played by a prominent performer in a single short scene of a mentee's life.
Just a very short scene. Now, now this could go on and become something else, but in my life, usually it doesn't. Like I showed the slide in my CEO challenge, Isaac Newf. We ended up at Khatsuar Hospital in Kenya and I had a cameo with him.
And the thing about a cameo, if you're a mentee, listen and ask questions about their story, hopefully they'll ask you questions as well. If they're a good mentor, coach and go through the training through one of our mentoring with a coach approach that we have available, ask about resources and training that they might recommend. If it's at a distance and remote zoom, which it often is, ask them who they would recommend in their region or even at their site who they think would meet their needs, help them achieve their goals.
And so we're networked. I mean depending upon who the individual you're having this day date with this cameo with may be able to take to the next step. And so I just. I like what Bethany just shared. Who do you want to become like? And Morgan is here in the room. And I'm just.
He mentioned to me about finding a mentor in OB at Morgan Chase at San Antonio. And there were two OB faculty, and one was a guy like him, and one was a lady. And the guy really had nothing to do with integrating faith or fighting for life. And it was, you know, hardly. I mean, people kind of knew that he went to church, but. And then there was this woman. And though maybe he would prefer a guy as a guy OB to mentor him, this woman was like what he wanted to become. And so she became his mentor.
Ask them to pray with and for you and if possible, keep the door open for future conversations. So for you mentors out there, this could be a pivotal role.
There's a saying, great big doors open on small hinges.
This cameo mentoring serves as a small hinge that can open a great big door in a future mentoring relationship with that individual, with someone that is really close by.
So moving on to the vows or making oaths, I mean, you know, let your yes be yes and your no no. I mean, we're familiar with that scripture, but God makes oaths, and he makes vows. It says in Hebrews 6. Now, when people take an oath, they call on someone greater than themselves to hold them to it. And without any question, that oath is binding. God also bound himself with an oath so that those who received the promise could be perfectly sure that they would never. That he would never change his mind. So God has given both his promise and his oath.
So it's a very special heritage, this, of making promises or vows for you, God, have heard my vows. You've given me the heritage of those who fear your name. It says in the Psalms. So a little bit of wheel of fortune, effective health care mentoring, you know, give me a vow, give me a vow. And that John 3:30. They must increase.
Yeah, I'd like to buy a vow pad.
So the vows of effective mentoring relationships. And you're all familiar with the short Hebrew El, what does it mean?
God? This is a vow before God. These are vows before God.
A, E, I, O, U, and sometimes Y. Now, there are coaching faculty in the room, and I know here in a few minutes they're going to spank me for this question. Why?
Because they say it's not a good question. But you'll understand it here in a minute.
So the vow. The vow before God. A. The vow Before I am going to use basic Alphabet blocks because these are fundamentals of successful mentoring. There's nothing really incredibly difficult or complex about these may not be complex, but they also may not be easy. At any given time, they're foundational, critical. So when I was a second year resident in surgery, there was a cardiac. Our favorite thoracic surgeon in our residency, we all loved him. Why? Because he was the one who first, the earliest in our residency would let us do big things as residents. He let us open. In fact, the residents we would, we would, would race to see how far into a pneumonectomy we could get before he came in the room.
And his wife was his nurse. So later I realized she was in the corner making the call. Gil, you better get here.
But he used this cardiologist who I thought was actually best way to get a D, you know, maybe a D plus.
He wrote these crazy noses and he was just so scatterbrained. And I would say, Dr. Herod, why do you use him to see your patients? He said, one reason, one reason only when I call him, he's available. And he comes and he sees my patient. And you don't like his scribbles, but he does dictate a nice note and send it to my office. And he has good bedside manner with patients. So he's available and he has good bedside manner. And availability to me is most important. So I've also heard about the three A's. Availability, affability and ability.
Ability, the three A's. And it's always a toss up between affability and availability, isn't it? The ability. You know, we hope you get board certified that you've got the ability, but it's that. So availability.
So the vow is I will be available and affirming as long as God keeps the door open in this relationship, as long as God keeps this open, I will be available. And I affirming as a mentor and really also for the mentees that I will be available and I'll be affirming to my mentor as much as I can and appreciate that one. So the Valley. I'm going to go through this quickly when I have a full hour and do this alone and not do it as a team. I've got research papers and stuff like that that I throw in. I'm just going to stick to the basics here because maybe hopefully, Bethany, we'll have a little bit of discussion at point this the end. And some people make some real gray hairs. And mentoring from the commission can make some comments. But the vow, the vow before God of E, I will share my experiences as well as my expectations with total transparency. It's bi directional. This is a vow from the mentee.
It's a vow from the mentor.
And you know, I've learned this especially recently with Lane, who's my med student. I had a really crummy week of anger.
And so I said, wait, Lane, I gotta confess some things to you. My wife and I have already worked through this, but I want to tell you, he says, I'm not perfect.
Here's just an example. And he said, why did you get so angry with her?
And so I unpacked it for him. And then he just said, I have never felt like I've been so close to you, Dr. Chopp. You know, over these last nine months of as, when you've just explained to me, because I get angry with Celia. Celia quite frequently and I just feel so bad about it. And so you've given me hope that over our marriage that we will get better and better and better at quickly resolving the issue that made us angry with one another. So I'll share with transparency my experiences, failures as well as successes, as well as my expectations. You know, I don't like it when students cancel on me for a mentoring session. I really don't. And so there better be a pretty doggone good reason for that cancellation. Not just, you know, the weather was good and disc golf, that kind of thing that has happened.
And so my expectations are that as much as possible, I will keep the appointment and they should keep the appointment, move on to I.
I will make any interested and intentional in cultivating this relationship over time. For me, one of the best ways that I show my intentionality is I generally mentor by reading through a good book together.
And the celebration of discipline is my favorite primer to start with in any relationship by Richard Foster. And I just learned every time I read through that book with a mentee, I learned something new from Richard Foster Foster. So that's my intentionality that we prepare, we read and I make notes of questions to ask and I will remain interested. Interested includes texting them as follow up about questions about significant things happening in their lives at that time. And that shows I'm thinking about them. Okay, I can pray about them, but when I text them and tell them I'm praying. And so. And when you demonstrate that mentees can just really make your day, I mean, my mentee, Andrew, he's been texting me every day this week.
I know you've Got this coming today praying for you I know you got this coming today praying for you. It's just bi directional benefit the vowel O.
I will be objective and welcome if feasible bi directional observation of life, work and ministry. And I think this is ideal in my case Bristol I'm not training now. My surgical residents, my PACS residents at tenwic they were able to observe me every single day and now I don't have as much of the ability. So those of you who are inside medical schools or residency training, you welcome.
It's really important to welcome their observations on how you and I did leave in and I'll be objective and welcome.
I will try to be as objective as I can and and say things that sometimes that we have permission to speak freely with one another.
Bill Geiger has a saying there on the bottom. One of my mentors once said people will learn more about the grace of God by watching you handle suffering adversity than success and prosperity. Think about that in light of the pandemic and how we suffered through that. And I have lots of stories I could tell you including one with Bob Schindler.
How he lost a patient on the table. And it was just, I think it's one of the most incredible lessons I've ever watched. And how my mentor, 63 year old surgeon, so seasoned loses a hernia repair on the table and what he went through in handling that family. He was never sued because of his incredible relationship with this family.
The patient was only 34 years old.
So A, E, I, O, U and sometimes Y I and here's where Darrell and don't be too upset with me. I will be up front and sometimes asking why or what or who or where or how. So they'll tell you that these are the important questions and this is sometimes too much in the face but self awareness and willingness to address potential barriers inherent in the relationship.
Mentees need to be open to criticism, challenge and accountability.
An eagerness to learn with humility.
So possible questions for medical dental students. How is your faith being affected, impacted by your medical training both in positive and negative ways? What are you learning about yourself and about God through your medical school residency experience? How is your medical training affecting your personal time with God negatively or positively? How is your sense of God's call being clarified during this time at medical or dental or pediatric or MP or PT or pharmacy school or whatever?
How are you seeing your character being tested in medical school? Or number six, what are your hopes and dreams for a medical career as a Christian healthcare professional and so this whole idea of coaching, not versus but coaching and mentoring and how there's a lot of coaching is task oriented. Mentoring is relationship oriented. Coaching is short term. Mentoring is generally longer term. Coaching is performance driven, achieving a goal that the person being coached identifies. Mentoring is development driven.
And then my last slide, this is. I've told Pam, well, I have freedom to change my mind here. This is probably my tombstone. You know, you saw the tombstone for Bob Schindler. This is my tombstone verse because I think it's important.
Mentor, mentee, and developing a trusting relationship with a mentee. Proverbs 3, 3 and 4, you all know Proverbs 3 and 5 and 6. Everybody knows Proverbs 3, 5, 6. Trust in the Lord with all your heart.
But right before that are these two verses. Let love and faithfulness never leave you.
Bind them around your neck like a stethoscope, write them on the tablet of your heart. Then you will win favor and a good name. That's sight of God and mentors and mentees, if you will.
So investing love and faithfulness all the time builds trust. That trust the mentee then builds loyalty of the mentee into the mentor and out comes favor and a good name for mentors and eventually mentees as well. And the relationship goes on and on as more love and faithfulness is poured into the relationship. Relationship.
[00:39:42] Speaker C: Take it away.
Okay, so we didn't want it to just be here's some advice or here's some points, but we want to also leave you with a lot of resources, right? So the Mentoring and Discipleship Commission is an arm within cmda.
And I wanted to kind of start with the mission statement there. The mission of the Mentoring and Discipleship Commission is to build an active community of Christ followers focused on impacting the spiritual and professional identity formation of healthcare trainees by these ways.
So that's a great way to combine our faith in healthcare, right? Like we need these mentors and disciple or mentoring and discipleship relationships.
So right here, if you click on the resources, you find all of this great information.
So I've been challenged throughout my life. Like, I think we probably all get faced with opportunities to do something and have this moment of like, I can't do that.
I would be an imposter, I'm afraid. Like, I'm not equipped, right? So here's some equipping material, you know, like for you to look at. But on the, on the site, here is all this information. And we have a whole bunch of the mentoring guides in the back here.
And they're Going to be on sale for like $10 today, I think. And there's a QR code in the back or I think Dr. Francis may be accepting cash as well.
But on the page too, there's questions, like questions that Dr. Chupp just went over. What are questions that you should be asking your mentee? Right.
So that's one great resource that we have. Another one is the mentoring academy that was recently started and you guys have just accepted your third class of like it's a full year long kind of fellowship of learning to be a mentor.
And then coming up, Dr. Daralyn Falk, she's going to be giving a session too after this. Right.
But for students, she is offering coaching sessions and it's a commitment of July to December. And you can find this registration information on the cmda, like under the events main page.
Right. So there's lots of opportunities and resources for us to be equipped to be mentors and to be mentored.
And then we want to leave you with a challenge to do something today.
So we have on your tables QR codes for mentors to fill out a form and for mentees or trainees to fill out a form. Because we want to start helping people connect in these relationships.
So going back to that kind of like you might be scared to step out and do something.
Somebody once asked me, like, how have you done all of these different things that you've done? And sometimes I say, well, I've learned to do things. Afraid, right?
It's not like I've gone and like, oh yeah, I've got this figured out. But you learn to say yes and you learn to do something maybe when you don't even know how to do it, but you're finding the resources and you're growing and you're trusting in God to equip you in each season of your life to be that mentor, to step in and have boldness to ask for that mentorship.
So we are encouraging you to sign up today and take some action in saying, I'm willing to be a mentor. So you'll go to a Google sheet and basically what we're hoping is that there will be physicians that'll say, hey, I'm in this area, I've been in this specialty, I'm willing to be a mentor. And then students, trainees can put their information in on the other side.
And after the conference here, what we're going to do is send out like resources, like the resource pages and what we've kind of talked about and allow students to reach out to physicians who have been, who are willing to be mentors.
And putting your information in here doesn't mean that you've committed to every student that messages you. It's saying, hey, let me see how God is leading me to become a mentor and field those questions. So here's kind of our last slide. Dr. Chupp and I are willing to, you know, have emails. I guess people email us. You put yours on there, so I put mine on there too. But we just also wanted to just leave a little bit of time here for questions, discussions and go from there.
[00:45:31] Speaker B: Thank you.
We can pass the micro back and forth.
[00:45:40] Speaker C: Oh, okay.
Yeah. Oh, oh, did I.
It's way harder than it should be.
Okay, so I think I saw him back here.
Well, we also want to get it because it's being recorded. So
[00:46:04] Speaker A: this is something I've struggled with.
[00:46:05] Speaker C: And that is what are the guidelines when you're doing cross gender mentoring that
[00:46:11] Speaker B: you should be following?
Yeah,
[00:46:16] Speaker C: well, we're going to run into.
[00:46:17] Speaker B: You can walk and talk if you want. Bethany on the way.
[00:46:20] Speaker C: Well, I was going to let you because you're the mentor in most of the relationships here, but I think you kind of spoke to it a little bit when.
[00:46:28] Speaker B: A little bit, yeah. Yeah. I certainly think it's a little bit easier and safer when it's in a zoom setting. I think. I don't think that.
And that's basically how Carissa and I have done our mentoring the plastic surgeons.
I think that being in open places, knowledge.
We have a principle at CMDA that you don't. We don't travel with someone the opposite sex, just two of us, unless both spouses are aware that there's travel happening. So I think an awareness.
My wife knows all about Carissa as I'm mentoring her and knows what's going on. Sometimes we've even been in the car on Bluetooth, you know, and Chris has said, fine, Pam can listen in. That's no problem.
So I do think that just the important thing is, I mean, we heard all about David, right? We heard all about David this morning. In our Bible, time is like, we do have a target on our backs and the enemy is coming after us.
And so guarding our hearts is very important.
And so I think never being in an isolated situation or place with a relationship, I would just never do that with a female mentee.
CMDA has been designed so incredibly well. I mean, we have no solid door. We have glass doors, glass panels, everything, so that everything's very visible. I think that's a great situation.
And I think that I don't have a ton of experience in this. I will tell you, Phil, but I just think principles are be aware and protect the relationship. And you just up front, as a mentor, there are some, here's some things that I won't be able to do in this relationship.
And I think that there's just going to be a big smile and a sigh of relief from as a guy mentoring a gal. There's going be to be a cyber. Oh good.
He's already. He's thinking about this and is going to take care of me in this relationship.
Other thoughts?
Thank you. Any experience or comments or thoughts on where mentoring overlaps with evangelizing?
In the case of Christian not believing. Yeah, I wish we had two microphones.
Any of the commission members can feel free. I think you're probably the best person here to answer this question.
[00:49:08] Speaker A: That's such a wonderful question.
And I had the privilege of serving as a clerkship director at a medical school for a decade.
And the sessions that I had with students that came in for advice were such a great pathway for mentoring and also evangelism. And my wife and I started holding an annual event at our home where I would give a talk called Navigating the Residency Selection Process.
And so she'd cook a delicious Indian meal. They'd all come. We'd get a dozen or a couple dozen that would come. I'd give the talk and at the conclusion of the talk I would give my testimony.
Now it was happening in my home. They were coming up their own volition. I was giving them evidence based information that was of practical use to them. And in exchange I also shared some other truths with them. So I found those to be great pathways to initiating those kinds of relationships. And often after those meetings is when students would then come and start asking me me deeper questions. So yes, I think that's a great way to do it.
[00:50:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you.
So let's do this either Bethany, I will repeat the question, but just go ahead so we can save time. Just go ahead. Who? Somebody raise their hand. Yeah. Just wanted to ask if you as a mentor experienced something like pre Covid mentees and post Covid mentees.
Actually pre Covid mentees would be enthusiastic, come without being gone and post Covid. There are on their phones they don't attend. And one of the issues is we can just let them be. As you said, the mentee doesn't pursue, the mentor doesn't pursue the mentee. I think I've been forced to pursue the mentee because he or she is going to be taking care of me. So I think we have to change that.
Okay. Pre and post Covid mentees.
And so I'm, I'm making one. I want to make sure I fully understand. Dr. Rapose, what you're saying is that you're saying we should be pursuing them as mentors.
Yeah. My struggle with that, as we suggested, is that to me it doesn't bode well for the long haul.
Gene Rudd often has complained to me that over the years with his relationship with Eastern Tennessee State University, he's often offered when he goes to speak to the medical students.
I'm an obgyn.
I love to mentor and to be in a partnership with you. And he said the students often, often, usually don't reach out. So I'm not trying to say that there's not a role for, you know, for being, you know, frequently up front and maybe, you know, reminding. But if we chase, I just don't think it bodes well for the long haul. And I'm so glad that. Bethany, go ahead.
[00:51:52] Speaker C: I was just going to say too, I think that can be set up front. Right. That's where you're setting clear expectations.
You know, it's maybe the three strikes you're out, you know, but like, you're as mentees, you have to realize you're, you're asking somebody for their time, which is very valuable. Right.
But as a mentor, I would really encourage you to sit, say, like, I have a zero tolerance policy for you being on your phone while we're in this session. Right. Like, this is, this is time that I am willing to invest in you. And so that expectation right off the top, like most medical students were like, pretty, like high aimers. We want to look well, like, we're probably going to eventually ask you for a letter of recommendation, you know, but set that because I think a lot of them will rise to that challenge and then also hold them accountable. Right. Because as a mentee, we're looking to grow. Right. And if you see an attitude of, like, casualty in your mentee, if you see an attitude of like, indifference, call them out on it because if they're in that relationship, they should be there to grow.
[00:53:21] Speaker B: Yeah, good answers, good answers. Caleb, you guys speaking to perhaps co mentees or co mentors rather than feeling like, you know, like, oh, as an individual, I have my own deficiencies, I have my own weaknesses. But being mentored or being mentoring with someone else alongside you, with a person, and have you guys any experience with that or talk about that as well.
[00:53:42] Speaker C: So. So the question was, have you ever had any experience with like having two mentees being mentored at the same time by the same mentor?
[00:53:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay. I have not, but I know that
[00:54:02] Speaker B: it's a mentoring academy, so some of the faculty prefer. I think. Patty, you're shaking your head. I think. Haven't you guys been involved in multiple 2 on 2? Hasn't it been even 3 on 3? 3? Would you like to talk about this just a little bit, Patti?
[00:54:20] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it was the first year of the academy and we just decided to do it that way and it was rich and fun and we all got to know each other better.
And so I would say, yeah, it could really work if it gets organized that way.
I had one question and that for me the struggle is to understand the younger generation.
And so I would love you students to help us know what your thinking is and how to reach out in a way that we can connect. Because I'm at a loss to understanding, you know, post Covid, that was so hard for you and training and how can we be on the same page? Because sometimes I'm just confused as to, okay, why aren't they answering me or whatever. So that would be really helpful for an article or something. I know Elisa's talked about it, which has been good.
[00:55:14] Speaker B: I want to tell you about an amazing resource that's less than a month old.
So someone who has really spent a lot of time with Gen Z says is Wes Earhart.
Wes did the most phenomenal chapel just a few weeks ago at CMDA and it's record, it's on the scene. All of our chapels get recorded on the CMD Ago app.
And I swear to you that it was a recording. He did it on video for us because he had to travel. I swear that he recorded it at 1.3x or 1.5x because it goes really fast. The nice thing, I guess on your phone is you'll be able to slide, slow it down a little bit. But I think he was trying to go at a Gen Z rate of speed is what he was trying to do. But fantastic insight. But I want you to answer this
[00:56:00] Speaker C: so I want to make sure I'm understanding your question correctly.
There seems to be a disconnect of maybe you understanding what we want or need out of the these relationships.
I will say I think, well, I kind of have to remove myself a little bit from the generation below me.
But I've been colleagues going through medical school at the same time as some of the 20 year olds.
And communication happens very differently. Right. Like, I had to have conversations with people and a lot of relationships are happening electronically right now. And so there's, there's a gap. And I think sometimes too, like, we might ask advice and maybe you've agreed to be our mentor and we're okay if you respond in an email maybe with some answers to our questions.
And that's maybe a little bit different because that's not a relationship and it's not a, I would say it's not like a disrespect, but there's some differing ways of communication. Right.
We are very comfortable on zoom because a lot of our education was on zoom or in front of a computer. But that removes the, like, sitting down and having a conversation and seeing body language and not having the distraction of like, oh, I'm on the phone or I'm on the meeting. But I'm also checking this message. And so I think there can be that disconnect in expectations, but in terms of like, what we're hoping to be mentored in, I can speak from my own experience, but I think each person would have different responses. And that's where I want to speak to the mentees. Like, have a specific ask.
Right. Like you might be saying, I'm wondering how and which and what residencies to apply to help me discern that. I'm looking for, like faith building right now. Or I'm asking for somebody to mentor me and show me how to combine my faith in challenging situations. Like, what do I do when I have a parent come and tell me their child needs gender affirming care? How have you experienced that? Because we're in a, like in a training position, we can always kind of have the, well, you know, my attending will talk to you later. You know, there's always an out. Right. So these transitions, these difficult faith areas are, I think, areas that we're hoping to be mentored in.
But I can let other people. Yeah, yeah.
[00:59:23] Speaker B: I think we've run out of time.
[00:59:24] Speaker C: Okay. We've run out of time.
[00:59:28] Speaker B: The need for mentoring is real, but so are the many opportunities. Every Christian healthcare professional has wisdom and experience and encouragement to pass on to the next generation. And every student and trainee needs someone who's willing to walk beside them, helping them faithfully live out their calling within healthcare.
The future of Christian healthcare depends on what we pass on today.
So don't underestimate friends. The impact of a conversation, a word of encouragement, or the decision to invest in a mentorship relationship. The influence that you have today, it may very well shape a couple career, a ministry, and countless lives for the Kingdom of God. If this episode stirred something in you today, don't let it stay there. I urge you to pray about it. Reach out to a Student say yes to a Conversation we have mentoring
[email protected] mentoring and we've been curating those resources and creating a guide that will equip you as you begin.
And if you found this conversation encouraging, please share it with a fellow healthcare professional who needs to hear it today and subscribe so that you don't miss future episodes of Faith in Healthcare.
Next week, I'm going to be joined by Mr. Ben Anderson. He is a longtime rural healthcare leader and advocate for a conversation about the future of rural health care in America.
Ben shares his insights from years of serving hospitals and communities in various rural settings, offering both a realistic look at the challenges ahead and a hopeful vision for faithful leadership, innovation, and the vital role that especially Christian healthcare professionals play in strengthening those rural communities.
I want to thank you for listening today to Faith in Healthcare, where our promise to you as a listener, or better yet, a subscriber to this podcast, whether you're a healthcare professional or a patient who loves Jesus Christ, is this we will do everything that we can to keep your faith and healthcare connected. We'll see you next time, Lord willing.
